Stellar Attraction Discussion Forum - Starcastle vintage and recent

Dan Joy

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Starcastle vintage and recent
18^th Aug, 2008 at 11:16pm

Just back in June I was *floored* hearing, for the first time as far as I know, "Lady of the Lake" from Starcastle's eponymous debut and "Fountains" from their second album FOUNTAINS OF LIGHT here on SA. I'd certainly heard of Starcastle before, but had no idea how good they really were or how much their music would appeal to my own tastes.

Only two and a half months have elapsed since that first exposure to Starcastle's music and by now I have the entire Starcastle CD catalogue in hand here! Well, almost all of it--one piece, REAL TO REEL, isn't easily available and is almost unanimously not recommended in discussions and reviews. I've even got CHRONOS 1, the out-takes, working tapes, and demos collection released in 2001. The expansive, positive spirit behind the music and the love and care reflected in often delicate craftsmanship and distinctive, intricate arrangements have obviously captured my attention and enthusiasm.

Right now I'm listening to SONG OF TIMES, which I received about a week ago, and which was released just last year, almost 29 years after the next-most-recent studio piece (the aforementioned REAL TO REEL). I'm so thrilled and relieved that this is a completely worthy reunion effort, unlike so many disappointing comeback efforts. It features all the original members plus several other excellent musicians, most notably Al Lewis, formerly of Alaska, singing lead on most tracks. I'm finding the disc rich, powerful, and rewarding, with a denser, often heavier sound than the original classics, while retaining their uplifting spirit and certain stylistic signatures.

The ALIVE IN AMERICA Concert Classics live set (from 1978) is such a strong set of performances that I imagine this band must have been something to see in their heyday. I'd love to see here in this thread reflections and reminiscences from those who saw the band back in the 70s, as well as any who've seen either or both of the relatively recent ROSFest performances. I'd also love to see any other comments, information, anecdotes, or opinions--positive, negative, or mixed--from any and all SA members concerning this band and their recordings. Thanks!

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huntr_22 Watcher Of The Skies Offline Posts: 943 France Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #1 - 18^th Aug, 2008 at 11:32pm Thx for your review Dan! Did one of Rick Wakeman's sons play with them also?Im sure I have heard this before.
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Dan Joy

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #2 - 19^th Aug, 2008 at 2:49am

huntr_22 wrote on 18^th Aug, 2008 at 11:32pm:

Did one of Rick Wakeman's sons play with them also?Im sure I have heard this before.

Yes, I *believe* Oliver Wakeman performed with them at ROSfest. Cool, huh? Very interested to hear from anyone who witnessed those performances. Oliver Wakeman is s not, however, among the personnel on SONG OF TIMES.

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ino_100

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #3 - 20^th Aug, 2008 at 2:27pm

Well, i'm unfamiliar with this band but from what I heard so far, it's good musicianship but the singer is not my cup of tea. Personally I have a bit of problems with signers like in Dream Theater. If I recall, you could enlighten me on this Dan, the singer in Starcastle is in the DT fashion?

Well, I'll probably have to listen to more to have a real opinion. And to be honest, I'm getting *slowly* but surely used to DT singing on SA...

Max

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huntr_22 Watcher Of The Skies Offline Posts: 943 France Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #4 - 21^st Aug, 2008 at 12:38am I have two Starcastle CDs now.As usual I heard them first on SA!
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Dan Joy

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #5 - 21^st Aug, 2008 at 4:52am

ino_100 wrote on 20^th Aug, 2008 at 2:27pm:

Well, i'm unfamiliar with this band but from what I heard so far, it's good musicianship but the singer is not my cup of tea. Personally I have a bit of problems with signers like in Dream Theater. If I recall, you could enlighten me on this Dan, the singer in Starcastle is in the DT fashion?
Max

Well, Terry Lutrell, the vocalist on everything Starcastle until last year's release Song of Times, is sometimes compared to John Anderson, but he's not quite in that league IMO...he sings high, generally, and usually, but not always, in a somewhat laid-back manner. Very melodic, very pleasant. What's awesome is the harmonies: all six members of the original band sang, producing luscious harmonies with occasional CSN-like perfection and delicacy.

Al Lewis, the lead singer on most of Song of Times, belts it out quite a bit more, and also, at times, could be compared to John Anderson.

I'm not real fond of the vocals on DT either...honestly, I've so far failed to connect with DT in general although the musicianship is of course impressive. Starcastle of course pre-dates DT by quite a period of time, and I wouldn't make much comparison, even in terms of the vocals...Starcastle's not nearly as "heavy" as DT although Song of Times is a bit heavier than the classic 70s Starcastle...

Trivia: Terry Lutrell, prior so Starcastle, was the vocalist on the first REO Speedwagon album! His approach in Starcastle is, probably needless to say, rather different...

Thanks for asking!

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Dan Joy Watcher Of The Skies Offline turn on, tune in, comment profusely Posts: 805 Falls Church VA Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #6 - 21^st Aug, 2008 at 4:53am huntr_22 wrote on 21^st Aug, 2008 at 12:38am: I have two Starcastle CDs now.As usual I heard them first on SA! Cool! Which albums are those? How would you compare the vocals on those albums to those of Dream Theater?
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Dan Joy Watcher Of The Skies Offline turn on, tune in, comment profusely Posts: 805 Falls Church VA Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #7 - 21^st Aug, 2008 at 5:59am Btw, thanks, guys, for "biting" and joining this thread!
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huntr_22

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #8 - 21^st Aug, 2008 at 11:59pm

Dan Joy wrote on 21^st Aug, 2008 at 4:53am:

huntr_22 wrote on 21^st Aug, 2008 at 12:38am:

I have two *Starcastle* CDs now.As usual I heard them first on SA!

Cool! Which albums are those? How would you compare the vocals on those albums to those of Dream Theater?

I have *Fountains of light* and *Starcastle*.I am will have to buy some more soon!

I am not sure about this comparision between Dream Theatre.

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Dan Joy Watcher Of The Skies Offline turn on, tune in, comment profusely Posts: 805 Falls Church VA Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #9 - 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 1:07am huntr_22 wrote on 21^st Aug, 2008 at 11:59pm: I have Fountains of light and Starcastle.I am will have to buy some more soon! Those are the two to have! Obviously, I'm enjoying Song of Times as well. A somewhat different flavor, but one likely, I'd think, to appeal to fans of Yes & Kansas.
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Harper

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #10 - 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 6:05am

I think I took several listens at Starcastle and decided they were too...shiny(?) sounding for me. It was as if Yes had been turtle waxed and buffed to a painful level. It almost kind of hurt my ears. I'll perhaps give a few of their other albums a listen or revisit that one, though!

Have you heard Cathedral's "Stained Glass Stories" or Deluge Grander's "August in the Urals?" (Both of which were SA introduced to me!) If you're Yes-friendly, you may like them. Cathedral especially sounds vaguely Yes inspired but also as though they're solidly off into their own thing.

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Dan Joy

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #11 - 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 7:26am

Harper wrote on 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 6:05am:

I think I took several listens at Starcastle and decided they were too...shiny(?) sounding for me. It was as if Yes had been turtle waxed and buffed to a painful level. It almost kind of hurt my ears.

Believe it or not, as much as I'm obviously enjoying these recordings, I think I know *exactly* what you're talking about, and I attribute it to problems in the approach taken to the audio production on the two classic Starcastle records, Starcastle and Fountains of Light. It's like too much chrome trim where chrome isn't needed, or as if the producers were trying to make candy out of subtler flavors. The band always strongly disliked the production of the vocals on Fountains of Light, which is still often considered their definitive record, where the vocals have a very plastic, at times almost robotic sheen or what Starcastle's late bassist Gary Strater called "that emotionless vocal quality." The vocals on Fountains of light are the most egregious example, but I think some similar production indiscretions to a much lesser degree were committed in the making of the debut record (different producer) where the audio glisten also sometimes verges on brittle. I've futzed with my EQ quite a bit to minimize these issues on both records so that I can relax and enjoy the wonderful compositions, performances, and arrangements.

I don't hear these problems on Starcastle's live recordings, demos, or working tapes, nor on Song of Times.

(Extended footnote: Roy Thomas Baker, the same producer responsible for the off-base vocal treatment on Fountains of Light, removed an exquisite and unique track called "Where Caverns Wind" from the album, leaving it, for me at least, with a feeling of being too short and distinctly missing *something*, even before I knew about the omission. The band felt that Baker was a mismatch for them, but the label insisted on keeping Baker with Starcastle for the next album, Citadel, which seems to suffer from label pressure to produce hits for for the stultifyingly mundane late 70s radio market--at which it didn't succeed. To be fair, Baker did great work with many other significant artists, including, for example, producing Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody".)

Thanks for your honest input on this thread! And thanks for your suggestions...your description of the Cathedral album really makes it sound appealing, as I am indeed Yes-friendly!

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Dan Joy

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Re: Starcastle vintage and recent
Reply #12 - 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 8:40am

huntr_22 wrote on 18^th Aug, 2008 at 11:32pm:

Thx for your review Dan!

Did one of Rick Wakeman's sons play with them also?Im sure I have heard this before.

A follow-up, Lumo--here's the web page where Oliver Wakeman himself tells the story of his work with Starcastle! How cool is that? Cool

http://www.oliver-wakeman.co.uk/html/starcastle_show.html

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ino_100 Harold The Barrel Offline Namaste Posts: 1,255 Montréal, Québec Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #13 - 22^nd Aug, 2008 at 7:05pm But like I said, I don't know much of StarCastle, so I don't have well founded opinion. Sorry, I'll have to listen to SA more often (what a sacrifice)... Max
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Dan Joy Watcher Of The Skies Offline turn on, tune in, comment profusely Posts: 805 Falls Church VA Gender:	Re: Starcastle vintage and recent Reply #14 - 24^th Aug, 2008 at 4:46am Anyone else? Starcastle -- love 'em? hate 'em? Seen 'em live? it would be great to hear from someone who's actually seen them in action!
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