I mean, I just don't get it. I love a lot of stuff on this site, but Yes just leaves me cold, and yet everyone else out there seems to love them.

I have been told there is the possibility I might like some of the earlier music. But what I have heard so far..well it just seems very twiddly, and over top, and mostly sounds, to me, rather soulless.

From some of the threads I have read here I guess lots of people out there might have strong views about someone not liking yes! just don't take it personally, ok? ;)

A fair question Otterstew - but one that needs answer with a question...  
What do you mean by Soulless? (Esoteric, Emotionless, Sterile?)  And what other bands from the Progressive era (1970's) do you consider Soulfull??
-hm

;).....and I guess you should define twiddly for us yanks (assuming it's a british espression)....do you mean hokey or pretentious?/

I don't know really. I guess I mean that it seems self conscious, over the top, somehow there don't seem to be any guts to the music. (really all I mean is that I don't like it! How difficult it is to define the reasons for something like that)

as to the second question, I am new to the prog world and its definitions, but I really lke Traffic, Gong, Can and Pink Floyd and I think they fall into the prog category and the decade. But to be honest the stuff I would consider to be more soulful from that time is the more 'traditional' music like Nick Drake, Tim Buckley, Cat Stevens, Big Star, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young etc....

oh and twiddly kind of sums up a lot of prog for me! lots of unneccassary embellishment, they seem more interested in producing weird noises and trying to be clever than in getting across an expression of how they feel inside. Maybe I am wrong, but so far I haven't felt that I understand what they are trying to say? It all just seems to meander along trying to be clever, but please tell me if I have missed the point.

I have nothing against twddly per se: I have been enjoying the soft machine, kevin Ayers, and Syd Barret Floyd, all of which have their share of twiddleness, but they also seem to contain something larger that makes my heart beat when I hear them: and that is my idea of soul.

When I hear Yes all I feel is mild irritation!   :'(

I think I know what you mean now otterstew.  I don't think you've missed the point (if there is one), but maybe a few pieces of the puzzle: Beginning in the 70's (IMHO) there was  an  explosion of creative exploration and discovery. With the advent of the Synth, Mellotron, etc.. and because of what the Beatles had started with Sgt. Pepper in the mid 60's - suddenly rock had evolved rapidly into a real art form - quite different from what it ever was or could be before.  Many groups, once they had a taste of the 'newer' sounds that were becoming available, did do quite a bit of embelishing - but it was because noone had ever heard these sounds before and they were anxious to expand their musical universe.
It really was an 'over the top' era - and after 30 years...some of it is amazing stuff and holds up well & some just sounds...dated.
But in the end..you're right - you either like something or you don't...
It seems though if you heard them back in the day - they'd sound different to you now. (if you know what I mean) ;)
Hope that helps.

-hm

Well certainly you're not required to enjoy Yes' music.  Most so-called progressive music leaves me cold, even big-name types such as Pink Floyd.  It's all subjective.

:)

[quote author=otterstew  link=1131477063/0#3 date=1131512782] they seem more interested in producing weird noises and trying to be clever than in getting across an expression of how they feel inside. Maybe I am wrong, but so far I haven't felt that I understand what they are trying to say? It all just seems to meander along trying to be clever :'([/quote]

I don't want to make any blanket statements...but this is a pretty good description of alot of Prog...but not in a real negative way.  For alot of bands, I think, it is really all about the Music & having fun and being creative...not so much making a statement or putting across a message necessarily.  I think what attracts me more to this type of music is its wierdness (or cleverness). Its not so serious..it meanders to places you would not expect to go.. groups like Gong, Brand X, Genesis, Caravan, Soft Machine..  It's creative, it's adventureous, and it's wierd, and wierd is good. (IMHO) ;D

I would have to agree, weird is definately good, the weirder the better and at the end of the day anything which pushes the boundaries is bound to provoke a reaction one way or the other.

I am still unsure with so many good experimental bands out there, exactly why Yes seems to enjoy the enthusiasm of so many people and almost seem to be considered the archetypical prog band...maybe I just need to listen to some more....I would certainly like to hear some early Yes. What I have heard on the site so far doesn't seem particularly to push boundaries that haven't already been pushed? >:(

Maybe some historical context would help; were Yes the innovators of the prog movement in the 70's or were they just the most successful? :-/

I would say Yes are popular, not just for their music, but for still being around after all that time and still accessible. They are not high and mighty like Pink Floyd, more down to earth.

The weird prog music is exprimental and by definition may not be so good to listen to. I think this music is interesting all the same, from a historical point of view. It has perhaps helped other muscians to see that they can experiment with sound. Those other musicans may then go on to develop these ideas and produce music which sounds better!

::)I am really not the "Yes Head" to talk to, cause they're pretty hit and miss with me, esp. the later stuff.  But you hit the nail on the head, cause they were, I believe, the first band that really brought it all together in a mature, progressive sound that was accessable but not overly 'pop'. The musicianship, the blending of styles (jazz, folk, r&b/rock, blues to a certain extent and space/psychedellia) - Around the early 70's I can't think of another group that came close - the Beatles were over, the Moodies had peaked, Hendrix was gone and P. Floyd were yet to peak-they were really it at the time.
What I think you're hinting at is very true - historical context means alot in understanding/appreciating  bands like Yes.
Whereas some bands died off at the end of the 70's (or became bad characutures of themselves).  Yes has to a large degree been able to reinvent themselves enough in each decade to remain very popular (to some more than others ;))

-hm

Thanks for the views and the information guys :)

No problem otter!  Probably raised more questions than answered, though ::)
Too bad you didn't get more responses (esp. from Yes fans!)

-hm

Yeah,

I was kind of expecting to get more responses from Yes fans as well, mainly in the form of abuse!

No one can force you to like a particular band or style of music. If you don't 'get it' with Yes, that is your loss, but I certainly wouldn't flame you for it. I'm sure there are plenty of other great bands that you like that are popular here and the fact that you are here on this forum is a good enough for me.:)

The reason I haven't contributed to this before is i would have trouble finishing the sentence "I love Yes because…" without saying exactly all the things that you would use to describe a band you like, so you would still be no further forward in understanding my passion for them.

Personally, one band that I can't get into at all are Gentle Giant. They do nothing for me at all.

Each to his own I say.

David

Hi,
The big deal with Yes?..... difficult to answer in an easy sentence. In the early days (I saw them first in 1969), they took pop songs, Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel, 5th dimension etc., and added something extra. To me that was the definition of Prog. Progression from what was the status quo.
They went on to compose their own music which pushed the boundaries of rock. I've seen them in Ireland, Canada and the US in the last two years and to my mind they are still doing music that is a progression from "rock".
Personal tastes vary, and you are free to like or dislike whatever you want, but it's a shame you can't get the vibe that a lot of Yesfans get listening to their music.
Try "Close to the Edge" and listen without prejudice.
And enjoy the music you like, as you like.
PS I don't like every Yes song or album, but they are still (to me) one of the best Prog bands in the world.
Dave

Thanks Dave, I will definately check out "close to the edge" when I get the chance.

I think u should pop the first album *Yes* "up ya kilt" otterstew ;)

They play a few covers and make them their own.

Let us all know how u get on!!

Anna

:-*

otterstew wrote on 19^th Nov, 2005 at 7:12pm:

Yeah, I was kind of expecting to get more responses from Yes fans as well, mainly in the form of abuse!

As if !

Each to his own. :)

I agree somewhat with your analisis of Yes music. but having said that they are one of the most prolific bands and there music doesnt try to follow any template. Well maybe the mid 80's they attempted to produce a few cross over main stream songs. Even then its was pretty good with Trevor Rabin in the lineup. You may want to listen to the 1973 Yes album "Fragile". This in my opinion was far and away their best. it has its lofty, dreamy moments but also has a lot of pure technical pieces with some pretty hard jamming grooves. This one has to be in the top 10 of all time Prog albums.

Hi,

For years I avoided buying any Yes stuff - probably for the same reason that you couldn't see what the attraction was !!

A few years ago I saw them live with the Buggles guy (Video killed the radio star !!) as the lead singer - it wasn't too good I'll tell you !! Kind of further put me off really.

Now ... having matured a bit (more !) & having taken up the drums I have realised that they have recorded some amazing stuff. Try "Close to the Edge" for a starter - an excellent album.
I recently bought their 35 year anniversary (double CD) a good taster of stuff from many albums.

Hope that helped

Jim

otterstew wrote on 19^th Nov, 2005 at 7:12pm:

Yeah, I was kind of expecting to get more responses from Yes fans as well, mainly in the form of abuse!

Hello and Welcome otterstew!!

I am a die hard YES fan.--You will not get abuse from me for your distaste in YES music.
I grew up listening to YES from the beginning.--I think I was drawn to them because of not "weired" sounding, but, more because of a different sound at the time(a good kind of weird)
I guess.--I know of many people who argue and fight over this.--Some like the early stuff, some like the middle stuff, and, some like the last few years stuff.--I've seen them many times during these past 30 something years.--Some shows were better than others.--I liked them all though.

I don't really know why it is called "prog".--I just like it!!!--That's why I like listening to what is here at SA!--Lots of weird, good, and different music!!!--What music tastes good to you is what matters!!

Is YES the best?----NO!!!!!---There's too many good groups out there to mention all that sound "weird"(good)!!.--Thats what seperates all of these so called "prog" bands from all of these 3 chord bands out there!!!.

It is all subjective as Jane said. -- Try "Close To The Edge" with headphones or/and  loud!!!!.

If you still don't like it, you can always use it to get people to leave your house!!!!--LOL
It worked for me for years.--Until they started liking and playing it themselves!!!!--LOL
Then, they wouldn't go away!!

It's all good!!---Here especially!!------------Good evening to you!!-----Brent

I know this is an old thread .... but ...

I think one of the best albums (having just bought it !) has to be "Going For The One"

I know that www.progarchives.com only score it with a 4.03, but I think it deserves more !!

The track "Awaken" is absolutely phenominal !!! as featured here, of course, regularily !!

:)

By the response of soulfulness, you listed a lot of heavy vocal music--is soulfulness, to you, in the vocals then?

I don't listen to lyrics. Words aren't what I listen to music for--I'm 100% in it for the notes. I know people who hate Yes because of the vocals--both the voice and the words. Neither bother me though because at least in their big stuff--Tales from Topographic Oceans, Close to the Edge, and most of the stuff from the Yessongs album, they're playing in a more classical style--it's really quite close to a chamber group. That appeals to me. I hear soul and heart by the boatload in their instrumental performances and in the timbre of Jon's voice.

(Sometimes it does get a little twiddly and noisy. I blame Wakeman for that mostly, and I tend not to like it. He's very talented but I find his musical style lacking.)

That's my big deal with Yes--at least in their 70's prime, they were the rock equivalent of a Brahm's chamber group, and I *love* that. It isn't for everyone though, certainly. I'm hardly a Yes-head, as they completelylost me as soon as they left the 70's and I don't care at all for any of Jon's solo stuff or much of the revival stuff. For a short while, however, they were classically-spectacular.